Sep 28, 2023·edited Sep 28, 2023Liked by Tessa Lena
Obviously, I am an outsider to all of this and have zero personal knowledge of any of the issues between these two folks (and, it is none of my business). Having worked with Trauma survivors for the past decade, however, I can assure you that both Johnny and Whitney have significant PTSD. Life Trauma is the "gift that keeps giving" and individuals with their own psychic baggage like these two will always have difficulty co-existing with anyone until they deal with their inner demons. Sometimes folks are unable to completely resolve their issues in this life ( I struggle with my own crap every day). I know narcissists and neither of these two really fit the diagnosis, IMO.
I wish them both the best and hope that they can continue to reveal Truth in their careers and achieve some measure of happiness in their personal lives. Who is in the right and who is in the wrong here? It is really not ours to decide. They are both HUMANS and simply reflect the frailties and insecurities that plague us all. They each must find their own way forward and, hopefully, find peace along the way...
Addendum: As I have puttered about working on household chores, I have continued to work my way through this lengthy video. It is really very disturbing. I am hearing from one of two very damaged people- one of whom appears to have actually been targeted by a REAL narcissist (and, I am not speaking about Johnny). I have lived this experience in many ways and can really empathize with all involved. I must say that I, too, am very concerned about Whitney's safety. I lost a son (suicide) and nearly lost my wife thanks to a manipulating "therapist" (spent summers in Crete reliving her previous life as a priestess of some sort). At the time I was in ignorance of most of this area of medicine and woo-woo world. I was working though my own issues and not fully aware of the pathological predators that lurk in the shadows ready to entrap the next Trauma survivor that succumbs to their gaslighting. Such people feed on the life energy and misery of their victims. Whitney needs to be very, very, very careful in coming days.
I will say no more on this sad situation. Peace and hope to All...
Sadly, the ball started outside of our control when Whitney accused Johnny and released a selection of their personal messages on American Vagabond. One would have to watch the entire interview to start forming an opinion. It is far more complex than a domestic dispute, from the sound of it.
She did not do that. She invited me on to join her on HER podcast. So consider that even this basic fact is being misrepresented, and what that demonstrates. It was a podcast for Unlimited Hangout, and we discussed her life experience with narcissism, going back to her mother, and how that overlaps with what the world just went through, with only a VERY small part about her relationship with Johnny. Yet Johnny made it all about him. Somehow thinking that by framing her entire podcast as about him, even though it wasn't, that somehow this does not make him look like a narcissist. He might want to reflect on that. I had no idea about this post until someone sent this to me. So by joining Whitney on her podcast after she invited me, apparently this is a "major smear campaign"? Come on guys. I for one have not even thought about Johnny since I heard they broke up and that Johnny no longer works with Unlimited Hangout. Not until seeing this attempt to make himself the center of a false situation. There are far more important things to worry about than their relationship. That is for them to work out. And I could care less about about Johnny's reputation, let alone enough to do what he is apparently accusing me of. I hope he finds his way past this, and I hope everyone can focus on what is important, and stop making personal drama the focus of the work. I will leave her podcast for those who want to listen, and so you can see for yourself that their relationship was a very brief part of a much larger discussion focused on real world issues and helping others. https://unlimitedhangout.com/2023/09/podcasts/the-false-self-with-ryan-cristian/
Ryan, I stand corrected on the fact that Whitney released her story on Unlimited Hangout with you as a guest, and not on your platform, the American Vagabond. I misspoke in this comment about that, and I apologize. I actually linked to Whitney's side in the very first sentence of the article to give people the opportunity to make up their own mind. So you are righteous in making that important technical correction. So yes, for the record, Whitney released her statement condemning Johnny and released some of their private messages not on Last American Vagabond but on Unlimited Hangout.
I don't hold you responsible for automatically siding with your friend in that conversation and possibly automatically writing off the other side, that is the most natural reaction in a friendship when your friend talks about being abused. I am very sincere, I don't get pulled in those partisan arguments, hate them with passion, and from my heart. I see you as a fellow human being who wants the truth.
I also think that this is less about the detail of the person relationship, and personally, I would be a happier person if that ball never got rolling. Once it gets rolling, the other person needs to respond, especially if the other person is getting cancelled. And you know how cancel campaign go, people go with loyalties, impressions, internal monologues, and it is very easy to ruin a life of an innocent person this way. I am opposed to harming the innocent in any shape or form, under any circumstance, regardless of my agreement or disagreement with anyone.
So of course I gave Johnny my platform, and I would do it again. Truth does matter. In my own life, I was once smeared by an abuser who had a lot more klout, and who accused me of God knows what, and it nearly cost me my life. I am very very keen on examining all sides of all stories with an open mind, I do it about everything.
Importantly, this story really is about much larger things, totally! It is about how the world can be upside down, about the importance of even-headedness, and the importance of navigating murky waters honorably. And God, there are so many murky waters around us.
Thank you for commenting here. I like having a conversation.
Also, for the sake of honesty, I don't think that Johnny is making himself a center of a false situation. It is possible that he found himself in the middle of a very tricky situation. My prayer, my honest prayer, is for truth and fairness. I want everybody to be in their most spiritually healed place, and in my own life, I found that examining different sides of everything fearlessly has the best chance of arriving at clarity. I think that most people want to be fair simply because all of us want to be treated fairly. We are al at a disadvantage trying to figure out the world via digital devices but in the end, to me at least, everything in life is about thinking from the inside, being honest and loving, aspiring to always do what's right spiritually, and being forgiving of other people's honest mistakes (while being aware of intentional trickery). I genuinely wish everyone the best, and I hope that the truth prevails!!
I listened to it last night, Ryan, and was so moved that I posted the conversation to my Facebook page. As a person who believes that the effects of trauma are not discussed nearly enough in relation to the damage it causes, it sounded to me like a confession rather than an accusation. And you're right, most of the conversation was focused on the false self as it relates to the gaslighted relationship people have with the ruling class/government that they perceive as warm and fuzzy iteration of daddy when he's really a serial killer. It was obvious that this was excruciating for Whitney to talk about, and the fact that she did so candidly despite the pain it caused her I believe is a testament of her wanting to heal and move on with her life. Meanwhile, she never mentioned Johnny by name and I had no idea it was him.
[Update: I'm prefacing this comment since I got blocked, and I didn't realize it until a few minutes later what had occurred.
This is also why I don't think after having gone through an experience with someone who exhibits bad symptoms of Narcissism, or someone with NPD, actually can claim no one can 'trick' them again, but may show some naiveté.
If you ever struggle to understand what someone who suffers, at the very least, bad symptoms of Narcissism will do to 'cycle' you, (at least with this represented version below) through their needy emotional rollercoaster, watch what Mary Magdal does around every response; she exhibits "flying monkey", narcissistic supply behavior, which can apparently look a lot like bad symptoms of narcissism, as well.
I was finger-pointed at, attempted to smear me (I accused her account of being fresh, but didn't argue when she stated her reason, as she didn't argue, but called me crazy when I reminded her she had given me advice), bring unrelated info into a very direct subj., and when it didn't work after continually trying to call me crazy, she shuts down communication, because she didn't succeed in having someone follow her down a rabbit-hole (word salad)].
Updated further after Mary Magdal deleted her account:
This used to be a perfect example of what people who ride or die and don't want to view things from a tempered outlook will do.
It looks like Sugar Magnolia commenting below made Magdal's last straw on being opposed and she couldn't handle the doubts of her inner pedestal for Vedmore.
It's intriguing how folk are still trying to split into who's 'lesser of two evils' in what everyone is also regarding as a personal relationship issue, and I've seen you pipe in a bit, miss, without your profile pic, and seemingly fresh account.
One thing I've failed to see, is why there's bias on people telling their truths online willingly, and why you, Magdal, feel like Ryan, whom had been on Webb's podcast to mostly talk about the elite's relationship with narcissism, and then miss Webb 'outing' Vedmore, whom she doesn't even mention by name per the above comment, from her experience in the last 40 minutes or so of her episode, which she hadn't subjected Ryan to, other than perhaps 10 minutes worth at the end of their convo.
Perhaps you heard what you wanted, since I saw Webb's interview in entirety, and she even stated she didn't know for sure if her daughter had lied about being hit by Vedmore, but when a child goes so far as to state it, after by this point a couple years of being around the other party, perhaps you should mind your perception and opinion of it.
I know this may be seen as abrasive, but it's due to how I've been reading, while most seem to either be taking a side on this very personal issue, which had been made public, according to Webb, due to Vedmore attempting to ride coattails in the podcast community while they'd already split, and making it seem they were still together at the time, of which he also admitted, and then claim only to be in it to see his son, I have to wonder once more, if people are truly being as magnanimous and bipartisan as we're all claiming to be. :)
On top of this, Webb also happened to mention, all the extra chats between herself and Vedmore, also including close friends, were to prove what she stated wasn't laid in fantasy over either party's version of reality. Which again, is theirs, and we're lucky enough these two are willing to put themselves out there like this.
Reading and listening comprehension is important, and I'm seeing through many comments, a lot of folk are struggling with their comprehension skills, and I wish you luck with your half formed opinion, since "playing the victim" if it's a part of someone's actual reality of events, isn't a game, it's a part of their surviving each other.
Sounds like victim-shame or blame, miss, and if they both truly were victimized by each other, it proves they also survived each other, since Vedmore still gets to speak to his son from what it looked like through, what you for some reason were upset by, Webb providing personal texts showing he did have opportunity to get updates, it's only when someone is also struggling with mental health issues, one wouldn't be subjecting themselves or their children to willingly, unless having a phone convo is requested by either parent or child, which it seems Webb is willing to provide to both her kids, since through those terrible chat messages, we learn her older daughter also stays in contact with Vedmore along with her bro.
Perhaps taking your own advice to research narcissism more may aid you, since people's understanding of narcissism should include: not everyone is going to present the bad symptoms in the same way your personal experience may have provided, even if it was unfortunately, for years.
Only a suggestion, and definitely not an exception to the rule of, continue to do research, their shouldn't be shame in it, and we all get to learn publicly if we oppose a view publicly. 🌈The more we know.
Found Johnny's burner account. Clearly you have no idea who is lying and who is telling the truth, not to mention that personal truth is often somewhat subjective. That said, Ryan and Whitney have been public independent media figures for years and both have displayed nothing but impeccable character, honesty and integrity. If you can deny this, you have either not followed them or you are being disingenuous.
I applaud you for giving Johnny this opportunity. I fear Whitney, whose work I appreciate and cite frequently, is attempting to irreparably damage Johnny's reputation without regard to his interests or to the broader interests of all who benefit from his work.
I worry she's not managing her rising fame and status very well.
Thank you for stepping outside the box and doing this interview and giving a voice to Johnny Vedmore even though I am sure you knew full well you might lose subscribers or make people angry or uncomfortable for doing so. I understand very well how once a famous person makes public claims against a less famous person, that less famous person is expected to remain silent. Take the "high road", if you try to defend yourself, you are looked down on--you really can't win either way. To respond is considered unpleasant, it can be viewed as sordid, in bad taste, but really, at that point, if the person being accused has any sense of self-worth, they must respond publicly, so that at least there is some record, and it is unfair to think badly of them for doing so. Whether or not what they have been accused of is true or not is another matter. They have the right to respond, and sometimes, there is nowhere for them to do so because everyone is afraid to give them a voice; afraid they will be tainted, lose their own standing and get canceled themselves. The world is falling apart, we don't want to hear these personal stories! But behind every big story are real people and I think this interview reminds us of that. So, thank you, Tessa, for reminding us of humanity. I know what it is like to be in a situation where powerful people attacked me and I was told I should remain silent so that the good work we were doing wouldn't suffer. So, this interview spoke to me personally.
However, what struck me as why this interview is especially important comes at the end where Johnny talks about what he is being accused of in the illusory world of the internet, in contrast to how he is known as a real person in the real world, in his community. I find I am writing more and more about encouraging people to get back to living in the real world. We are losing touch with reality. The only way to survive in the hard times ahead is to get back to building communities, connecting with people in the real world, looking at people in the eyes and having real conversations, practicing what we preach, not just thinking that we can pass judgement on social media while feeling no accountability in our own lives. So, yes, be kind, be forgiving. My heart goes out to the children, who always suffer in these situations. I pray this will pass and they will have both their parents. Our children need to be able to build their own stories, we should not use innocent children to continue our own stories to justify our own behavior.
And many hugs to you. I have also been in a situation where, in my case, an ex who was abusive and who had more "klout" made a big effort to ruin my life. It was very painful. It was only thanks to the kindness of my friends that I survived.
I was in an abusive marriage and finally found the courage to leave when my daughter was four years old. I was living between London and a village in what was then communist Yugoslavia at the time and he was a well known singer there. I returned to Los Angeles with my daughter. Despite his abuse, the rest of his family were wonderful people and we remain d close. I made sure to take my daughter regularly to Slovenia when she was growing up so she would have that connection to her family and that rich part of her life. When she was older she was able to form the relationship with her father that worked for her. This is where I say it's important that children be able to form their own life stories (although it isn't easy as a parent to step aside). What I refered to in my comment above was when I stated a creative writing program in Los Angeles for incarcerated youth in the 1990s and I stood up to some powerful people who took over the organization. That's a whole other story. So, I know what it's like to be canceled all the way back in the 90s!
Sep 29, 2023·edited Sep 29, 2023Liked by Tessa Lena
There's also the aspect that I'm not sure anyone has commented on that I think you were getting at when you encouraged people to please listen until the end. The irony of free speech advocates beginning to censor one another. The possibility of his work being deleted and these accusations against him being used as an excuse for something else, and the possibility that his research allegedly was given to someone else to be used is disturbing. For most people who are not writers or who have not worked so tirelessly and put their whole heart into this movement for the past couple of years it's hard to understand how devastating this can be. Again, we don't know the facts but it's important, since one side was put out there to the public (one has to wonder why) the other side has a right to respond.
Sep 29, 2023·edited Sep 29, 2023Liked by Tessa Lena
That's not the point is it? If all my articles/essays were wiped off Substack, sure, I have copies, but it's the canceling that matters. I don't write just for myself to keep it on my personal computer. Writers work hard to build a readership. To build a reputation. To have that all wiped out is devastating. It is being demanded of Rumble that they wipe out Russell Brand. Rumble responded that his content on Rumble has nothing to do with what he is being accused of. If he gets canceled for something he said or did in the past, where does it end? How bad the the behavior have to be? What moral authority will make those decisions? This is not a good.turn of events and I hope people will see that.
It's bad I agree and as I contemplate it all I fail to see why Whitney of her own accord would do this. Is she really that vindictive but..... if she's got a handler, it may be his motive we need to understand
"The only way to survive in the hard times ahead is to get back to building communities, connecting with people in the real world, looking at people in the eyes and having real conversations, practicing what we preach, not just thinking that we can pass judgement on social media while feeling no accountability in our own lives." Yes, yes, and yes!!! And my biggest prayer is for the kids, in this case and in general.
Sep 28, 2023·edited Sep 28, 2023Liked by Tessa Lena
Wow! Thank you Tessa and thank you Johnny! I restacked this article and am writing this comment before even listening. I'm grabbing my coffee and getting comfortable because I really want to pay attention. I too love Whitney & love Johnny. Like most people I learned of Whitney well before Johnny, but then Johnny presented to us on Medical Doctors for Covid Ethics and I quickly became of a fan of Johnny. Whitney & Johnny are both tremendous talents in their own right and it took me a while to connect the dots about "Whitney & Johnny". Would be super interesting to get Whitney's side, but I admit I feel a little guilty about being so interested in people's personal back story. I guess it's the price you pay when you are public figures if I can say it that way. Since Whitney is probably a little more well known, I recommend people in the peanut gallery (like me), get to know Johnny's work before drawing any ultimate conclusions about either side, and then don't have any conclusions because we are just outside people in the peanut gallery universe after all. It would be my prayer that this interview helps Johnny & Whitney in whatever way possible and helps the life and relationships of them and their child together, be it closure, understanding, or to reconcile differences. Since they are Mommy & Daddy to the same child, I pray for blessings on their child most of all. God Bless
Personal relationship are complex. What I took from Whitney’s words was that she needed to work out some of her issues and that’s how she chose to do it. But beyond that it’s probably best for strangers to stay out of it and not assume they know anything at all. Just because the online world creates false relationships people tend to think they know more than they do or rush to defend or attack. This is personal and its best to just assume the person just needs to get things out. There are multiple perspectives to to every interaction.
For sure. In this case, one would have to watch the entire response by Johnny. I intentionally provided no commentary of my own but this sounds far more complex than what one would initially assume.
Also, complicated by speaking publicly especially when the parter is also a public figure online. So, of course for him, it's a very different matter. That can get messy quickly. Nice that you are trying to help your friends, in as sensitive manner as possible. If you know them, then you have the imperative in some sense. All I can say is that I assumed nothing, and just heard her as " attempting to sort things out". but not ignorant of the fact there was another person impacted. whether rightly or wrongly I have no idea.
Have you listened to the 3 hours of the interview, or are you providing a general opinion? Also, would you personally like to have an opportunity to get your side heard if you were being canceled by your former partner who were publicly accusing you of being an abuser, or would you prefer that your partner releases your private communications to the world, and then very few people want to talk to you or work with you based on one side of the story? Those are two questions I have in response to you somewhat heated response. The heat is very much not called for, and I thank you for your sincerity.
This interview was so compelling. I watched it straight through. I would like to hear the other half of this compelling story being told by Johnny Vedmore from Whitney Webb. Kudos to you Tessa for remaining silent throughout, listening intently, without interjecting or asking questions and interrupting the flow of Johnny's telling his side to this sad, sad story. I feel so sorry for all who were involved, especially the children.
Thank you, Leesy!!! And yes, I pray for the children. It is going to be very difficult for them to sort through this when they grow up. I really really pray for the children, no matter what the adults do, it's not their fault at all.
Agreed and the whole situation is so sad because there is a child involved. I do really applaud your handling of this difficult situation.
I am from Wales, and married to a fiery southern firecracker lol. I just listened to Whitney's side of it and honestly it sounds like a marriage to me with all the hurt and disappointments to work through. Albeit both of them sound like they bring a lot of angst and pain into it.
often the women abusers get away since it is much easier to see them as the victim. i had a friend commit suicide and later discovered the extent of abuse. my heart goes out to any victim of domestic violence, but especially the unseen and unspoken for.
Tessa you are a beautiful human being. Your compassionate, nonjudgemental presence is so healing. I was riveted by this, not as a voyeur but as someone trying to understand the deep complexity of human relationships. I have long valued your leadership from the heart. This is what our world needs.
Your words are such a honor, CuriousElder!! Thank you. I am determined to do everything with love and from love.
Even the monsters, they need to be kept in total check very firmly while they are acting in this manner but they, too, will one day heal (although they are responsible for that process ultimately)
I feel that Johnny is being very heartfelt and vulnerable and is being as truthful as he can about the situation. I applaud him for that. Tell him to hang in there. The whole world is not crazy and time heals all. As hard as it may seem, it may be better to let go completely and allow his son to get to know him as an adult, otherwise Whitney will continue to use him as the fall guy and he will never have a life. It is powerful to remember that every soul chooses his/her parents and everything sorts out in the end. And it is helpful to remember that abusers never let go of their victims. My dad tried to destroy until the day he died at 88 and I was 67. All you can do is minimize your exposure and garner the strength to rise above it all and move on. Easier said than done, but we’ll sort the effort.
Auto-corrupt is the bane of your existence as well?
At least when I use my Bluetooth keyboard, such as I am now, I don't have to deal with it, auto-corrupt is disabled (pro tip, look up Logitech K380). :-)
I’m too tapped out with info overload to watch but I deeply respect the desire to have communication occur regardless of what may come. It is part of healing and growing even if their are moral failures- they can be learned from.
What a nightmare. Family member was in a slightly similar situation, in England no less. She only survived thanks to close friends, and her courage in speaking up for herself. Finally. Tessa, what you are doing here is so courageous and important, thank you.
It takes two to tango. Some book on narcissism said that. I wish I remembered which one, but it's been years since I've had my psychology book binge.
I read some of the chats Whitney Webb posted and they both have communication issues.
It was not cut and dry that he's the bad guy.
It reminded me of my parents who separated and divorced when I was starting high school. They pointed the finger at each other, but my mother was more loud in proclaiming that my dad was at fault. She ended up with a guy who was "nice" but full of crap after that.
I am sorry about the troubles that your parents had!! I think most people nowadays end up with some kind of a childhood trauma.
In this case, one really needs to listen to the entire three hours of Johnny's interview to get the complexity of his perspective, that is not all about personal stuff.
Thanks for reminding me to listen. It does take two to tango and it was well illustrated in the movie Tonya with the terms, gardener and flower. ( obviously not as extreme as they
I think Johnny is learning a lot about people and himself from this.
I hope Whitney does too.
My parents ended up being good friends. I hope they do too.
I have an ex gf that put me through a lot but finally after some time she apologized that she was a mess inside her brain through those times and that helped me to help her figure herself out. I also learned some things about myself that I was repressing!
Thank you Rob. And yes, this situation doesn't seem generic, it is necessary to watch the entire three hours in order to get an idea, it's packed with things, and some are personal, and some are not.
I always disliked the hippies saying that love will save the world.
I couldn't see how, until I realized that a lot of bad things are from people who don't love themselves and end up serving others.
The more people progress towards understanding these psychological issues, the less we will have a society that promotes the trauma that causes these issues...
Obviously, I am an outsider to all of this and have zero personal knowledge of any of the issues between these two folks (and, it is none of my business). Having worked with Trauma survivors for the past decade, however, I can assure you that both Johnny and Whitney have significant PTSD. Life Trauma is the "gift that keeps giving" and individuals with their own psychic baggage like these two will always have difficulty co-existing with anyone until they deal with their inner demons. Sometimes folks are unable to completely resolve their issues in this life ( I struggle with my own crap every day). I know narcissists and neither of these two really fit the diagnosis, IMO.
I wish them both the best and hope that they can continue to reveal Truth in their careers and achieve some measure of happiness in their personal lives. Who is in the right and who is in the wrong here? It is really not ours to decide. They are both HUMANS and simply reflect the frailties and insecurities that plague us all. They each must find their own way forward and, hopefully, find peace along the way...
Addendum: As I have puttered about working on household chores, I have continued to work my way through this lengthy video. It is really very disturbing. I am hearing from one of two very damaged people- one of whom appears to have actually been targeted by a REAL narcissist (and, I am not speaking about Johnny). I have lived this experience in many ways and can really empathize with all involved. I must say that I, too, am very concerned about Whitney's safety. I lost a son (suicide) and nearly lost my wife thanks to a manipulating "therapist" (spent summers in Crete reliving her previous life as a priestess of some sort). At the time I was in ignorance of most of this area of medicine and woo-woo world. I was working though my own issues and not fully aware of the pathological predators that lurk in the shadows ready to entrap the next Trauma survivor that succumbs to their gaslighting. Such people feed on the life energy and misery of their victims. Whitney needs to be very, very, very careful in coming days.
I will say no more on this sad situation. Peace and hope to All...
Good observation.
Oh yeah. The story of the "trusted advisor". They're the real pieces of crap that stir drama.
I hope she wakes up and realizes that she's been had.
I hope Johnny learns a lot from this too.
Trauma usually leads to some personality disorder or several
Absolutely!
Prayers for your healing and remarkable that you can turn your circumstances into good by helping others. God Bless!
Thanks for your kind remarks. Peace and hope...
I don't wish to be rude when you're obviously doing this for good-hearted reasons.
But Johnny and Whitney's domestic problems are none of my business. I would feel like a voyeur if I listened to this.
Sadly, the ball started outside of our control when Whitney accused Johnny and released a selection of their personal messages on American Vagabond. One would have to watch the entire interview to start forming an opinion. It is far more complex than a domestic dispute, from the sound of it.
Oh dear. I didn't know she'd done that.
All I can say is I wish them both well.
She did not do that. She invited me on to join her on HER podcast. So consider that even this basic fact is being misrepresented, and what that demonstrates. It was a podcast for Unlimited Hangout, and we discussed her life experience with narcissism, going back to her mother, and how that overlaps with what the world just went through, with only a VERY small part about her relationship with Johnny. Yet Johnny made it all about him. Somehow thinking that by framing her entire podcast as about him, even though it wasn't, that somehow this does not make him look like a narcissist. He might want to reflect on that. I had no idea about this post until someone sent this to me. So by joining Whitney on her podcast after she invited me, apparently this is a "major smear campaign"? Come on guys. I for one have not even thought about Johnny since I heard they broke up and that Johnny no longer works with Unlimited Hangout. Not until seeing this attempt to make himself the center of a false situation. There are far more important things to worry about than their relationship. That is for them to work out. And I could care less about about Johnny's reputation, let alone enough to do what he is apparently accusing me of. I hope he finds his way past this, and I hope everyone can focus on what is important, and stop making personal drama the focus of the work. I will leave her podcast for those who want to listen, and so you can see for yourself that their relationship was a very brief part of a much larger discussion focused on real world issues and helping others. https://unlimitedhangout.com/2023/09/podcasts/the-false-self-with-ryan-cristian/
Ryan, I stand corrected on the fact that Whitney released her story on Unlimited Hangout with you as a guest, and not on your platform, the American Vagabond. I misspoke in this comment about that, and I apologize. I actually linked to Whitney's side in the very first sentence of the article to give people the opportunity to make up their own mind. So you are righteous in making that important technical correction. So yes, for the record, Whitney released her statement condemning Johnny and released some of their private messages not on Last American Vagabond but on Unlimited Hangout.
I don't hold you responsible for automatically siding with your friend in that conversation and possibly automatically writing off the other side, that is the most natural reaction in a friendship when your friend talks about being abused. I am very sincere, I don't get pulled in those partisan arguments, hate them with passion, and from my heart. I see you as a fellow human being who wants the truth.
I also think that this is less about the detail of the person relationship, and personally, I would be a happier person if that ball never got rolling. Once it gets rolling, the other person needs to respond, especially if the other person is getting cancelled. And you know how cancel campaign go, people go with loyalties, impressions, internal monologues, and it is very easy to ruin a life of an innocent person this way. I am opposed to harming the innocent in any shape or form, under any circumstance, regardless of my agreement or disagreement with anyone.
So of course I gave Johnny my platform, and I would do it again. Truth does matter. In my own life, I was once smeared by an abuser who had a lot more klout, and who accused me of God knows what, and it nearly cost me my life. I am very very keen on examining all sides of all stories with an open mind, I do it about everything.
Importantly, this story really is about much larger things, totally! It is about how the world can be upside down, about the importance of even-headedness, and the importance of navigating murky waters honorably. And God, there are so many murky waters around us.
Thank you for commenting here. I like having a conversation.
Also, for the sake of honesty, I don't think that Johnny is making himself a center of a false situation. It is possible that he found himself in the middle of a very tricky situation. My prayer, my honest prayer, is for truth and fairness. I want everybody to be in their most spiritually healed place, and in my own life, I found that examining different sides of everything fearlessly has the best chance of arriving at clarity. I think that most people want to be fair simply because all of us want to be treated fairly. We are al at a disadvantage trying to figure out the world via digital devices but in the end, to me at least, everything in life is about thinking from the inside, being honest and loving, aspiring to always do what's right spiritually, and being forgiving of other people's honest mistakes (while being aware of intentional trickery). I genuinely wish everyone the best, and I hope that the truth prevails!!
I listened to it last night, Ryan, and was so moved that I posted the conversation to my Facebook page. As a person who believes that the effects of trauma are not discussed nearly enough in relation to the damage it causes, it sounded to me like a confession rather than an accusation. And you're right, most of the conversation was focused on the false self as it relates to the gaslighted relationship people have with the ruling class/government that they perceive as warm and fuzzy iteration of daddy when he's really a serial killer. It was obvious that this was excruciating for Whitney to talk about, and the fact that she did so candidly despite the pain it caused her I believe is a testament of her wanting to heal and move on with her life. Meanwhile, she never mentioned Johnny by name and I had no idea it was him.
[Update: I'm prefacing this comment since I got blocked, and I didn't realize it until a few minutes later what had occurred.
This is also why I don't think after having gone through an experience with someone who exhibits bad symptoms of Narcissism, or someone with NPD, actually can claim no one can 'trick' them again, but may show some naiveté.
If you ever struggle to understand what someone who suffers, at the very least, bad symptoms of Narcissism will do to 'cycle' you, (at least with this represented version below) through their needy emotional rollercoaster, watch what Mary Magdal does around every response; she exhibits "flying monkey", narcissistic supply behavior, which can apparently look a lot like bad symptoms of narcissism, as well.
I was finger-pointed at, attempted to smear me (I accused her account of being fresh, but didn't argue when she stated her reason, as she didn't argue, but called me crazy when I reminded her she had given me advice), bring unrelated info into a very direct subj., and when it didn't work after continually trying to call me crazy, she shuts down communication, because she didn't succeed in having someone follow her down a rabbit-hole (word salad)].
Updated further after Mary Magdal deleted her account:
This used to be a perfect example of what people who ride or die and don't want to view things from a tempered outlook will do.
It looks like Sugar Magnolia commenting below made Magdal's last straw on being opposed and she couldn't handle the doubts of her inner pedestal for Vedmore.
It's intriguing how folk are still trying to split into who's 'lesser of two evils' in what everyone is also regarding as a personal relationship issue, and I've seen you pipe in a bit, miss, without your profile pic, and seemingly fresh account.
One thing I've failed to see, is why there's bias on people telling their truths online willingly, and why you, Magdal, feel like Ryan, whom had been on Webb's podcast to mostly talk about the elite's relationship with narcissism, and then miss Webb 'outing' Vedmore, whom she doesn't even mention by name per the above comment, from her experience in the last 40 minutes or so of her episode, which she hadn't subjected Ryan to, other than perhaps 10 minutes worth at the end of their convo.
Perhaps you heard what you wanted, since I saw Webb's interview in entirety, and she even stated she didn't know for sure if her daughter had lied about being hit by Vedmore, but when a child goes so far as to state it, after by this point a couple years of being around the other party, perhaps you should mind your perception and opinion of it.
I know this may be seen as abrasive, but it's due to how I've been reading, while most seem to either be taking a side on this very personal issue, which had been made public, according to Webb, due to Vedmore attempting to ride coattails in the podcast community while they'd already split, and making it seem they were still together at the time, of which he also admitted, and then claim only to be in it to see his son, I have to wonder once more, if people are truly being as magnanimous and bipartisan as we're all claiming to be. :)
On top of this, Webb also happened to mention, all the extra chats between herself and Vedmore, also including close friends, were to prove what she stated wasn't laid in fantasy over either party's version of reality. Which again, is theirs, and we're lucky enough these two are willing to put themselves out there like this.
Reading and listening comprehension is important, and I'm seeing through many comments, a lot of folk are struggling with their comprehension skills, and I wish you luck with your half formed opinion, since "playing the victim" if it's a part of someone's actual reality of events, isn't a game, it's a part of their surviving each other.
Sounds like victim-shame or blame, miss, and if they both truly were victimized by each other, it proves they also survived each other, since Vedmore still gets to speak to his son from what it looked like through, what you for some reason were upset by, Webb providing personal texts showing he did have opportunity to get updates, it's only when someone is also struggling with mental health issues, one wouldn't be subjecting themselves or their children to willingly, unless having a phone convo is requested by either parent or child, which it seems Webb is willing to provide to both her kids, since through those terrible chat messages, we learn her older daughter also stays in contact with Vedmore along with her bro.
Perhaps taking your own advice to research narcissism more may aid you, since people's understanding of narcissism should include: not everyone is going to present the bad symptoms in the same way your personal experience may have provided, even if it was unfortunately, for years.
Only a suggestion, and definitely not an exception to the rule of, continue to do research, their shouldn't be shame in it, and we all get to learn publicly if we oppose a view publicly. 🌈The more we know.
You could care less or you couldn't care less?
Found Johnny's burner account. Clearly you have no idea who is lying and who is telling the truth, not to mention that personal truth is often somewhat subjective. That said, Ryan and Whitney have been public independent media figures for years and both have displayed nothing but impeccable character, honesty and integrity. If you can deny this, you have either not followed them or you are being disingenuous.
So you did listen. Voyeur.
i don't think anyone is here!
I applaud you for giving Johnny this opportunity. I fear Whitney, whose work I appreciate and cite frequently, is attempting to irreparably damage Johnny's reputation without regard to his interests or to the broader interests of all who benefit from his work.
I worry she's not managing her rising fame and status very well.
Too bad you don’t have the sense to stay out of other peoples personal challenges. Unreal.
Also most importantly whatever and whoever, these adult behaviors are red flags regarding the children's welfare and wellness.
Thank you for stepping outside the box and doing this interview and giving a voice to Johnny Vedmore even though I am sure you knew full well you might lose subscribers or make people angry or uncomfortable for doing so. I understand very well how once a famous person makes public claims against a less famous person, that less famous person is expected to remain silent. Take the "high road", if you try to defend yourself, you are looked down on--you really can't win either way. To respond is considered unpleasant, it can be viewed as sordid, in bad taste, but really, at that point, if the person being accused has any sense of self-worth, they must respond publicly, so that at least there is some record, and it is unfair to think badly of them for doing so. Whether or not what they have been accused of is true or not is another matter. They have the right to respond, and sometimes, there is nowhere for them to do so because everyone is afraid to give them a voice; afraid they will be tainted, lose their own standing and get canceled themselves. The world is falling apart, we don't want to hear these personal stories! But behind every big story are real people and I think this interview reminds us of that. So, thank you, Tessa, for reminding us of humanity. I know what it is like to be in a situation where powerful people attacked me and I was told I should remain silent so that the good work we were doing wouldn't suffer. So, this interview spoke to me personally.
However, what struck me as why this interview is especially important comes at the end where Johnny talks about what he is being accused of in the illusory world of the internet, in contrast to how he is known as a real person in the real world, in his community. I find I am writing more and more about encouraging people to get back to living in the real world. We are losing touch with reality. The only way to survive in the hard times ahead is to get back to building communities, connecting with people in the real world, looking at people in the eyes and having real conversations, practicing what we preach, not just thinking that we can pass judgement on social media while feeling no accountability in our own lives. So, yes, be kind, be forgiving. My heart goes out to the children, who always suffer in these situations. I pray this will pass and they will have both their parents. Our children need to be able to build their own stories, we should not use innocent children to continue our own stories to justify our own behavior.
And many hugs to you. I have also been in a situation where, in my case, an ex who was abusive and who had more "klout" made a big effort to ruin my life. It was very painful. It was only thanks to the kindness of my friends that I survived.
I was in an abusive marriage and finally found the courage to leave when my daughter was four years old. I was living between London and a village in what was then communist Yugoslavia at the time and he was a well known singer there. I returned to Los Angeles with my daughter. Despite his abuse, the rest of his family were wonderful people and we remain d close. I made sure to take my daughter regularly to Slovenia when she was growing up so she would have that connection to her family and that rich part of her life. When she was older she was able to form the relationship with her father that worked for her. This is where I say it's important that children be able to form their own life stories (although it isn't easy as a parent to step aside). What I refered to in my comment above was when I stated a creative writing program in Los Angeles for incarcerated youth in the 1990s and I stood up to some powerful people who took over the organization. That's a whole other story. So, I know what it's like to be canceled all the way back in the 90s!
Wow, what a powerful story you have, Karen! I applaud your strength!!!
🙏
I'm glad the positives aspects of that relationship with the ex were saved for your daughter
There's also the aspect that I'm not sure anyone has commented on that I think you were getting at when you encouraged people to please listen until the end. The irony of free speech advocates beginning to censor one another. The possibility of his work being deleted and these accusations against him being used as an excuse for something else, and the possibility that his research allegedly was given to someone else to be used is disturbing. For most people who are not writers or who have not worked so tirelessly and put their whole heart into this movement for the past couple of years it's hard to understand how devastating this can be. Again, we don't know the facts but it's important, since one side was put out there to the public (one has to wonder why) the other side has a right to respond.
I agree, and that's an excellent point, Karen!
Surely, Johnny kept copies of his articles at home on his own hard drive, right?
That's not the point is it? If all my articles/essays were wiped off Substack, sure, I have copies, but it's the canceling that matters. I don't write just for myself to keep it on my personal computer. Writers work hard to build a readership. To build a reputation. To have that all wiped out is devastating. It is being demanded of Rumble that they wipe out Russell Brand. Rumble responded that his content on Rumble has nothing to do with what he is being accused of. If he gets canceled for something he said or did in the past, where does it end? How bad the the behavior have to be? What moral authority will make those decisions? This is not a good.turn of events and I hope people will see that.
It's bad I agree and as I contemplate it all I fail to see why Whitney of her own accord would do this. Is she really that vindictive but..... if she's got a handler, it may be his motive we need to understand
"The only way to survive in the hard times ahead is to get back to building communities, connecting with people in the real world, looking at people in the eyes and having real conversations, practicing what we preach, not just thinking that we can pass judgement on social media while feeling no accountability in our own lives." Yes, yes, and yes!!! And my biggest prayer is for the kids, in this case and in general.
Just about to watch/listen. This makes me sad...can people just have true and honest relationships? I pray for harmony and healing.
Thank you, Pete!! And yes, I pray for harmony for all of us, and for healing, and for the truth to prevail.
Wow! Thank you Tessa and thank you Johnny! I restacked this article and am writing this comment before even listening. I'm grabbing my coffee and getting comfortable because I really want to pay attention. I too love Whitney & love Johnny. Like most people I learned of Whitney well before Johnny, but then Johnny presented to us on Medical Doctors for Covid Ethics and I quickly became of a fan of Johnny. Whitney & Johnny are both tremendous talents in their own right and it took me a while to connect the dots about "Whitney & Johnny". Would be super interesting to get Whitney's side, but I admit I feel a little guilty about being so interested in people's personal back story. I guess it's the price you pay when you are public figures if I can say it that way. Since Whitney is probably a little more well known, I recommend people in the peanut gallery (like me), get to know Johnny's work before drawing any ultimate conclusions about either side, and then don't have any conclusions because we are just outside people in the peanut gallery universe after all. It would be my prayer that this interview helps Johnny & Whitney in whatever way possible and helps the life and relationships of them and their child together, be it closure, understanding, or to reconcile differences. Since they are Mommy & Daddy to the same child, I pray for blessings on their child most of all. God Bless
Thank you, Albert, you have such a kind heart!! That's the most important prayer. God bless you as well
Personal relationship are complex. What I took from Whitney’s words was that she needed to work out some of her issues and that’s how she chose to do it. But beyond that it’s probably best for strangers to stay out of it and not assume they know anything at all. Just because the online world creates false relationships people tend to think they know more than they do or rush to defend or attack. This is personal and its best to just assume the person just needs to get things out. There are multiple perspectives to to every interaction.
For sure. In this case, one would have to watch the entire response by Johnny. I intentionally provided no commentary of my own but this sounds far more complex than what one would initially assume.
Also, complicated by speaking publicly especially when the parter is also a public figure online. So, of course for him, it's a very different matter. That can get messy quickly. Nice that you are trying to help your friends, in as sensitive manner as possible. If you know them, then you have the imperative in some sense. All I can say is that I assumed nothing, and just heard her as " attempting to sort things out". but not ignorant of the fact there was another person impacted. whether rightly or wrongly I have no idea.
I have no idea AND it's not my business. Which is the only correct position for strangers.
You have no business getting involved. What is wrong with you ?
Have you listened to the 3 hours of the interview, or are you providing a general opinion? Also, would you personally like to have an opportunity to get your side heard if you were being canceled by your former partner who were publicly accusing you of being an abuser, or would you prefer that your partner releases your private communications to the world, and then very few people want to talk to you or work with you based on one side of the story? Those are two questions I have in response to you somewhat heated response. The heat is very much not called for, and I thank you for your sincerity.
My heart breaks for Johnny.
This interview was so compelling. I watched it straight through. I would like to hear the other half of this compelling story being told by Johnny Vedmore from Whitney Webb. Kudos to you Tessa for remaining silent throughout, listening intently, without interjecting or asking questions and interrupting the flow of Johnny's telling his side to this sad, sad story. I feel so sorry for all who were involved, especially the children.
Thank you, Leesy!!! And yes, I pray for the children. It is going to be very difficult for them to sort through this when they grow up. I really really pray for the children, no matter what the adults do, it's not their fault at all.
Agreed and the whole situation is so sad because there is a child involved. I do really applaud your handling of this difficult situation.
I am from Wales, and married to a fiery southern firecracker lol. I just listened to Whitney's side of it and honestly it sounds like a marriage to me with all the hurt and disappointments to work through. Albeit both of them sound like they bring a lot of angst and pain into it.
She talks about it here
https://soundcloud.com/unlimited-hangout/the-false-self-with-ryan-cristian
Yes, thank you, I linked to Whitney's side in the first paragraph of the article, it's the page where she shared some of their private messages, etc.
Didnt even notice the link. Stupid small phone screens get ya everytime😁
often the women abusers get away since it is much easier to see them as the victim. i had a friend commit suicide and later discovered the extent of abuse. my heart goes out to any victim of domestic violence, but especially the unseen and unspoken for.
I am so sorry about your friend!!!! God bless his soul
thank you, dear Tessa. his soul is free now.
Tessa you are a beautiful human being. Your compassionate, nonjudgemental presence is so healing. I was riveted by this, not as a voyeur but as someone trying to understand the deep complexity of human relationships. I have long valued your leadership from the heart. This is what our world needs.
Your words are such a honor, CuriousElder!! Thank you. I am determined to do everything with love and from love.
Even the monsters, they need to be kept in total check very firmly while they are acting in this manner but they, too, will one day heal (although they are responsible for that process ultimately)
I feel that Johnny is being very heartfelt and vulnerable and is being as truthful as he can about the situation. I applaud him for that. Tell him to hang in there. The whole world is not crazy and time heals all. As hard as it may seem, it may be better to let go completely and allow his son to get to know him as an adult, otherwise Whitney will continue to use him as the fall guy and he will never have a life. It is powerful to remember that every soul chooses his/her parents and everything sorts out in the end. And it is helpful to remember that abusers never let go of their victims. My dad tried to destroy until the day he died at 88 and I was 67. All you can do is minimize your exposure and garner the strength to rise above it all and move on. Easier said than done, but we’ll sort the effort.
Thank you. The last sentence should have read: Well worth the effort. (Sometimes the phone thinks it's smarter than me!)
Auto-corrupt is the bane of your existence as well?
At least when I use my Bluetooth keyboard, such as I am now, I don't have to deal with it, auto-corrupt is disabled (pro tip, look up Logitech K380). :-)
God Bless social media for airing laundry best kept indoors.
It is nobody’s business but theirs - why do they have to take it public?
If Whitney is being handled, she might have been assigned to cause a curfluffel
That actually is making more and more sense cause the Deep State does important things while everyone is consumed with gossip and inuendo
I’m too tapped out with info overload to watch but I deeply respect the desire to have communication occur regardless of what may come. It is part of healing and growing even if their are moral failures- they can be learned from.
Thank you, I agree that communication really helps to understand things (n most cases, anyway). This one is worth watching all though.
Ok I’ll check it tomorrow x
What a nightmare. Family member was in a slightly similar situation, in England no less. She only survived thanks to close friends, and her courage in speaking up for herself. Finally. Tessa, what you are doing here is so courageous and important, thank you.
It takes two to tango. Some book on narcissism said that. I wish I remembered which one, but it's been years since I've had my psychology book binge.
I read some of the chats Whitney Webb posted and they both have communication issues.
It was not cut and dry that he's the bad guy.
It reminded me of my parents who separated and divorced when I was starting high school. They pointed the finger at each other, but my mother was more loud in proclaiming that my dad was at fault. She ended up with a guy who was "nice" but full of crap after that.
I am sorry about the troubles that your parents had!! I think most people nowadays end up with some kind of a childhood trauma.
In this case, one really needs to listen to the entire three hours of Johnny's interview to get the complexity of his perspective, that is not all about personal stuff.
Thanks for reminding me to listen. It does take two to tango and it was well illustrated in the movie Tonya with the terms, gardener and flower. ( obviously not as extreme as they
were but a similar dynamic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htKkQc3QUQs )
I think Johnny is learning a lot about people and himself from this.
I hope Whitney does too.
My parents ended up being good friends. I hope they do too.
I have an ex gf that put me through a lot but finally after some time she apologized that she was a mess inside her brain through those times and that helped me to help her figure herself out. I also learned some things about myself that I was repressing!
Thank you Rob. And yes, this situation doesn't seem generic, it is necessary to watch the entire three hours in order to get an idea, it's packed with things, and some are personal, and some are not.
I always disliked the hippies saying that love will save the world.
I couldn't see how, until I realized that a lot of bad things are from people who don't love themselves and end up serving others.
The more people progress towards understanding these psychological issues, the less we will have a society that promotes the trauma that causes these issues...
Or so I hope.
This kind of human drama is always present. Only difference is dissidents can’t afford fixers nor are any provided
Beware any third party attempting to profit from it in some way. Present company obviously excluded.