This guy has been one of the best and most consistent writers on the Covid con over the past two years.
When someone has been so consistently correct they are worth listening to. He also strikes me as someone who is always willing to re-evaluate his position based on new evidence.
In short quite rigorous in his analysis and open-minded towards learning more about the world around him.
Like everything else, anarchism can be defined in different ways. The black-clad, brick throwing "anarchists" are only one version. Anarchism has a long history (see Mikhail Bakunin, et al) and does not mean chaos, it means TRUST. Humans trusting one another rather than being dictated to from above by ruling capitalist elites with their laws. (Police came about to protect private property, period). Ultimately anarchism would take us back to the tribal life tof our deep past, especially so-called hunter gatherers (as if they had no minds, no complex relationship to nature, no spiritual life, they just shuffled around looking for something to eat). Anarchism came out if the great dream of humans being able to live without laws, trusting one another. In other words, can we dare to dream rather than just re-shuffle more of the same? (Haven't looked at your conversation yet, just wanted to get this out there)..........
I agree that anarchism, like many other things, can be defined in different ways. And also agree that trust, the way it existed in a village where nobody locked the doors (and that was true even when my mom was little) is a far healthier approach than algorithmic law enforcement.
That said, there is a distinction that feels important to me, based on my own experience (have to specify this because It is all very nuanced. And as I discovered from my conversation with Paul, the word "anarchism" can mean different things to different people.
There was a village (I think in Mexico but I don't remember) where the indigenous people drove out the police and the bureaucrats and started living in the old way. That, in my opinion, is perfect. But it requires powerful and real spiritual practices. I don't think that human beings can go back to living in harmony without restoring connection to the spirit (and teaching children that) and a respectful relationship with nature. In which case, political theories are entirely insufficient and can actually create great havoc. So to my senses, there is no need to reinvent political wheels, we can just get humble and try to remember how our ancestors did it. We can be creative but in the end, to my senses, there is zero need for new political theories, we can just go back to our roots, and it is beautiful. And it can only work when we do it from the heart, without theorizing all that much about isms.... This is how I feel about it anyway.
yes! In that Mexican village I think it was the women who decided to throw out the police, and did it. And you're absolutely right. We've (in western civ) had at least 500 years of indoctrination to not be able to act that way. We've had our connections and autonomy eroded for generations and this has been replaced by extreme dependence on our rulers (in the guise of the system. or vice versa). But that Mexican case demonstrates that it's still possible, for some, to reactivate (I won't say restore, because that community likely had not lost those connections) those relationships and independence.
I wouldnt really call Cheran a village... The population is around 20 thousand. I think its very easy for a village to be autonomous... when we get to the level of munipality there are more challenges to having a truly egalitarian form of social organization... Hence the example of Cheran is very instructive.
I agree. That is, I was using anarchism in terms of its attempt to be free of laws created by elites, but my entire focus is learning from indigenous ways
Regarding indigenous ways, I highly recommend Voices of the First Day by Robert Lawlor about the Australian aborigines and much more. It's a special book, a treasured source for years
Regarding what happened in Mexico perhaps you're referring to the Zapatista rebellion starting in 1994 whose spokesperson was Subcomandante Marcos. From their base in Chiapas, they protested economic policies that negatively affected Mexico’s indigenous population. The insurgency later developed into a forceful political movement that advocated for Mexico’s disenfranchised Indians.
I liked what I saw about Nevermore but have to tell you that when I attempted to pay $5/mo, something went haywire and a total of $180 was charged to my account which my bank immediately tagged and stopped. So I'm free for now. Let's connect if you or your Nevermore site gives me an email address...
Man - or woman - will always need a leviathan of some aspect to keep our worst instincts in check. I dispised the horrible 'Purge' movies, but that is where man would end up if it wasn't for a directed morality. I expect a century ago women expected to be raped because their was no recourse to a law that stated that rape was illegal. Do we really wish to return to hunter gatherer status. It would solve a few problems for us males because in this modern world a man does not know what it is he is meant to be. Are we supposed to be masculine of feminine, or perhaps have a little bit of both. As Esnest Becker stated, (I paraphrase) man is not able to reach his warrior status, so he feels castrated.
Christ, I look around me and I see men in their twenties taking handfuls of Viagra because they cannot exist as sexual beings, probably because they have watched so much porn that the thought of touching a naked woman fills them with dread.
I digress. "All property is theft". What a stupid idea. We all have property in some form. Habeas Corpus. We own our bodies. It is our property. I am free to do to my body whatever I want: Tattoos. BDSM. Abortion. Suicide. But, if I try to force my will on another's body without their concent that should be against some law. Anarchy - like communism - does not work. We have settled on the capitalist system(a better, more fair one in Europe than in the USA, the American Dream. HA!) and that is the system we should try to live under. I am a socialist - fuck you Marjorie Taylor Green, go get an education - and I find a good blend of a socialist/capitalist society here in Ireland.
As far as we know, anatomically modern humans, whose brains were just as sophisticated as ours are, have been around for over a hundred thousand years. Statecraft emerged 6000 years ago.
The mainstream narrative skims over the first hundred thousand years of our history and goes straight to the bloodiest episode that humanity has ever known, that episode characterized by the centralization of power in the hands of the state. It then concludes that humans are nasty and brutish, that barbarians will be forever at the gate, and that we therefore need a powerful government in order to protect us from ourselves.
This is an absolutely absurd narrative, and it seems insane to me that so many people believe it. Most people who believe this narrative probably don’t even know that they believe it. So deeply is this belief ingrained within us that questioning it seems foolish and crazy to most people. Isn’t that insane?
Thank you for this, it's fabulous what the people of Cheran are doing! Related to the Kurdish free state, Kobane, terrorized by the fascist Turkish state. Check out the writings of the imprisoned Kurdish philosopher behind that movement for democratic confederalism, also led by the women...
Yes, I am of course familiar with the theory of democratic confederalism... which was heavily influenced by the libertarian municipalism of Murray Bookchin. I feel that non-anarchist thinkers consistently downplay the continuing influence of anarchist ideas around the world today... I mean, here in Mexico vast swaths of land are controlled by the Zapatistas, who take their name from Emiliano Zapata, who was a Magonista... And the brothers Magon were most assuredly anarchists (Ricardo Flores Magon viewed Kropotkins The Conquest of Bread as a kind of anarchist Bible). And people can accuse me of romanticizing these places, but Ive spent enough time in Zapatista territory to know that these inspiring example of free societies are worth celebrating.
Yes, definitely Subcomandante Marcos and the Zapatistas. Re: democratic confederalism of course I was referring to Abdullah Ocalan...a treasure for humanity for years in a Turkish prison while writing world-changing ideas inspiring the Kurdish freedom movement
Well said Michael. I feel like I'm getting closer to anarchism. I used to respect law and order when I was young because I thought it was the only way to live in peace. Now I realize that "law and order" are the sources of evil because they are constantly manipulated. I couldn't imagine the extent of the manipulations we are subjected to. But now I see it and anarchy could solve that.
I don't want to say that it is possible to achieve it. It is still a utopia. But we must cultivate in our inner beings this spirit of disobedience.
Since you talk about spirituality, I was led to anarchism by Taoism. The spiritual path to anarchism is particularly beautiful.
Pre-state police societies and peoples also tend to have murder/violence-rates magnitudes higher than more formally and strutcturally organised societies.
You can look at Scandinavian Iron Age for the perfect examples, as our Medieval laws simply were the same as the pre-christian ones, they just added a chapter about the christian god and rules re: clergy. If you felt you had been a victim of a crime, you could bring this to Ting and speak if you were free (not a thrall or in debt, or a foreigner or outlaw), and plead your case, and bring witnesses. The other party could do the same, and the Ting would deliberate according to law and tradition. Most often, any conflict was solved with fines payed (and haggled over).
But some crimes did not allow fines. Let's say someone violated a family member of yours so bad they died. The Ting, if siding with you (which in no way was guaranteed as influence, wealth and status played its part) would grant your ight of reprisal. Actually carrying that out was on you, and so was dealing with any repercussion from the other side, often leading to generations-long feuds (several of the Sagas mentions such things as one of the main causes for people migrating to Iceland or going a-viking).
So you see, we as a race and species and cultures have already tried what various libertarians and anarchists propose, and those systems are the foundation for the societal evolution what has brought us here. That background cannot be discounted: that was the main mistak of the french revolutionaires as well as the american ones and the Marxist-Leninists: the tried to cut humanity off from its past and reinvent everything from scratch using reason. The french revolution brought mass murder on an even larger scale than the feudal monarchies', the Russian Revolution we all know how it turned out, at the American one only worked well as long as racial segregation was practiced - not a good grade with modern universalist morals, yes?
Not trying to say you are wrong or that ideas of how to break out of the this end-stage of the current historical cycle we're in are bad per se - just saying that any kind of governement and governance has already been tried multple times with results varying all across the board dependent on technology, race, kultur, and contextual circumstances, making t next to pointless to say that this or that system is always bad or can never work (and we need to define both "bad" and "work" too, right?).
Anyways, thank you for your time. Debating ideas is virtually dead here in Sweden, at the ideas of history/the history of ideas was my favourite subject when I was still allowed to teach.
Maybe you didn't read what I wrote or I didn't write it clearly: the Scandinavian Iron Age you talk was already violent -- iron means weapons -- because it was far removed from hunter gatherer tribes. Same with the first empires in the Middle East which were unparalleled in their violence. Modern military's technology has only made things worse.
Hunter-gatherers were/are even more violent. Iron equals weapons, really? You think humans needs iron to make weapons?
Empires in the Middle East unparalleled in violence? So you have never heard of historical China, the mayans or the aztecs just to name a few?
Modern military technology has meant fewer civilian casualties as direct effect of war, not more. You need to study history for real.
And the mortality for hunter-gatherers, all kinds, staggers our belief. Average lifespan of 55-60, 6-8 children per woman at least since 2 to 3 out of 5 children dies before age 5, not to mention the risk of the mother dying at childbirth.
Put down the hookah and go study real history, not pipe dreams.
Stop ignorantly insulting me, most of what you're saying is absurd. And read what I'm saying carefully. Obviously historical China, the Aztecs etc. were super violent, I never said otherwise. Have you ever lived among or even visited hunter gatherers, the few who remain? See what's been done to them since the arrival of the "civilized" races, millions murdered in the Americas, African peoples herded into artificial nation-states succumbing to rule by corrupt leaders of one tribe lording it over the rest. The health of hunter gatherers was outstanding compared to our toxic societies filled with obese, diabetic people chained to pharmaceuticals. Why don't you try reading the book I suggested, Voices of the First Day? You'll see what we've lost. Nothing human is perfect but there's no doubt modern military technology has meant massive deaths for civilians as well as soldiers, check out World War I, World War II, the drones now.
Good comment. It's the non-Hobbsean notion that we don't need a state to control us. And people did live like that for 30k years...and painted those amazing cave paintings. No one since "civilization" has ever been able to paint like that. I'm not being frivolous, I think there's something key in that. The state has been something we've been coerced into for 5000 years or so. How that happened I don't begin to know and there are a whole lot of theories.
the state is just watered-down feudalism. in addition, over time it became a weaponized control mechanism which replaced the traditional division of village labor - the midwife, the herbalist, the hunters and farmers - with a control grid enforced by a system of rewards and punishments completely alienated from and irrelevant to the innate rewards or failures of those jobs themselves. we need to get back to that.
Tessa, regarding your excellent, scary Human Batteries article: when I was in Italy a few years ago (2017), I was staying with some friends and they showed me this in action. They, husband and wife, had Android mobile phones with the WalkyBit app, which used the built-in motion and location of the phone connected to a server which mined crypto from the phone's motion. So they had these dedicated phones (they didn't use them for making calls) that they carried everywhere, even walking round the house. With enough "credits" the crypto would be transferred as cash into a Visa card which they then used as money. It involved a €5,000 investment in the company to create an account, which was a catch. But nevertheless, this was happening back in 2017, 5 years ago.
will definitely give this a listen! I was an avid Winter Oak reader even before the convid, and you've both been excellent on the psy ops we're living through.
Very thought provoking discussion! Much needed perspective sharing. Thank you. I share many of your thoughts in it. Many times lots of "great mystery" feel going on.....with all this.
"Ministry of Fun" from the human batteries piece made me LOL! Then I caught myself, thinking of the things we used to laugh at that have all come to pass. Still, we must continue to laugh, for love loves to laugh and hate hates to be laughed at. Thanks for the chuckles, always. The snarky inputs are a wonderful adornment to your writing, and laughing at them sets me breathing again.
"Communism is the most opportunistic kind of capitalism. Ownership is framed as management." I had always felt that way but was never able to articulate it so well. Thanks. Also glad you brought up how we need to fight dystopia by bringing equal parts utopia to the argument. that we have to be every bit as audacious as Klaus the Louse.
I know from your earlier writing that you were on to the technocratic agenda since way back - like 2015. In your experience in China, did you have an inkling that this hell we are in now would be rolled out? Maybe that could be something you explore in an upcoming piece?
"Capitalism is the most opportunistic kind of communism. Managment is framed as ownership."
Rent seeking, regulatory capture, no distinction between people holding office or sitting on board or being owners, and all capital and ownership ultimately gathered in a few thousand pairs of hands. Not to mention "campaign donations" and all the other ways capitalists buys politics.
If you look into what Marx wrote later on, true socialism is in effect anarchism, where every worker owns the means of production etc. No centralized ruler.
Even John Lennon explained it well in his song "Imagine".
The USSR was not really socialist, it was state capitalist. The state owned things.
The USA is State corporatist, aka Fascist, where corporations run the political system.
This is correct, been saying it forever -- capitalism can be state capitalism or corporate capitalism but it ends up giving the people the short end of the stick, and not only people. Through unrelenting extractive colonization of the planet for short-sighted profit, it ends up destroying life forms, environment, air, water, and ultimately our sanity.
Tessa Lena said in the video: "Anarchist is like a terrorist" -
Being a terrorist itself, the rabid government brainwashes people into thinking that those who protest its abuse, corruption, and "official" endless crimes are "disruptors of peace."
Agree with the danger of labels and "isms".....I would never use the word "Anarchist" or only in the rarest of situations,....all these terms are very loaded and so can't to the populace offer an accurate description......I would use this instead "Voluntary Assembly" rather than Anarchy,,,,,we are all Anarchists, we do "Anarchy" all the time in every aspect of our lives,,,friends for example are anarchists, deciding themselves the hows and how nots of the friendship.....stand and watch a street performer, = thats anarchy.....lend your neighbor a cup of sugar = Anarchy....
Great resource re the traps of language = General Semantics
Is it a capital A or lower case a? Who cares,,, doesnt change what it is...
This guy has been one of the best and most consistent writers on the Covid con over the past two years.
When someone has been so consistently correct they are worth listening to. He also strikes me as someone who is always willing to re-evaluate his position based on new evidence.
In short quite rigorous in his analysis and open-minded towards learning more about the world around him.
Yes, Paul is absolutely fantastic!!
Like everything else, anarchism can be defined in different ways. The black-clad, brick throwing "anarchists" are only one version. Anarchism has a long history (see Mikhail Bakunin, et al) and does not mean chaos, it means TRUST. Humans trusting one another rather than being dictated to from above by ruling capitalist elites with their laws. (Police came about to protect private property, period). Ultimately anarchism would take us back to the tribal life tof our deep past, especially so-called hunter gatherers (as if they had no minds, no complex relationship to nature, no spiritual life, they just shuffled around looking for something to eat). Anarchism came out if the great dream of humans being able to live without laws, trusting one another. In other words, can we dare to dream rather than just re-shuffle more of the same? (Haven't looked at your conversation yet, just wanted to get this out there)..........
I agree that anarchism, like many other things, can be defined in different ways. And also agree that trust, the way it existed in a village where nobody locked the doors (and that was true even when my mom was little) is a far healthier approach than algorithmic law enforcement.
That said, there is a distinction that feels important to me, based on my own experience (have to specify this because It is all very nuanced. And as I discovered from my conversation with Paul, the word "anarchism" can mean different things to different people.
There was a village (I think in Mexico but I don't remember) where the indigenous people drove out the police and the bureaucrats and started living in the old way. That, in my opinion, is perfect. But it requires powerful and real spiritual practices. I don't think that human beings can go back to living in harmony without restoring connection to the spirit (and teaching children that) and a respectful relationship with nature. In which case, political theories are entirely insufficient and can actually create great havoc. So to my senses, there is no need to reinvent political wheels, we can just get humble and try to remember how our ancestors did it. We can be creative but in the end, to my senses, there is zero need for new political theories, we can just go back to our roots, and it is beautiful. And it can only work when we do it from the heart, without theorizing all that much about isms.... This is how I feel about it anyway.
yes! In that Mexican village I think it was the women who decided to throw out the police, and did it. And you're absolutely right. We've (in western civ) had at least 500 years of indoctrination to not be able to act that way. We've had our connections and autonomy eroded for generations and this has been replaced by extreme dependence on our rulers (in the guise of the system. or vice versa). But that Mexican case demonstrates that it's still possible, for some, to reactivate (I won't say restore, because that community likely had not lost those connections) those relationships and independence.
I wouldnt really call Cheran a village... The population is around 20 thousand. I think its very easy for a village to be autonomous... when we get to the level of munipality there are more challenges to having a truly egalitarian form of social organization... Hence the example of Cheran is very instructive.
I agree. That is, I was using anarchism in terms of its attempt to be free of laws created by elites, but my entire focus is learning from indigenous ways
Regarding indigenous ways, I highly recommend Voices of the First Day by Robert Lawlor about the Australian aborigines and much more. It's a special book, a treasured source for years
Thank you Michael!!
Regarding what happened in Mexico perhaps you're referring to the Zapatista rebellion starting in 1994 whose spokesperson was Subcomandante Marcos. From their base in Chiapas, they protested economic policies that negatively affected Mexico’s indigenous population. The insurgency later developed into a forceful political movement that advocated for Mexico’s disenfranchised Indians.
Could you describe why this is an important book?
Getting lost in these comments. Are you referring to Robert Lawlor's Voices of the First Day?
yes!
You might also enjoy this video > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5OrpHetUo or this one (in this I explain the type of participatory democracy that have in Cheran) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqIIqFWNRXQ or this one > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJXFDEI0oAA...
Yes, thanks for all of this, let's keep in touch. I'm poet, novelist, author of World on Fire and Let's Burn the Flags of All Nations
Very cool to meet you!
I liked what I saw about Nevermore but have to tell you that when I attempted to pay $5/mo, something went haywire and a total of $180 was charged to my account which my bank immediately tagged and stopped. So I'm free for now. Let's connect if you or your Nevermore site gives me an email address...
Weird! Thats the first that I hear of anyone having that problem... You didnt get charged anything, though?
Man - or woman - will always need a leviathan of some aspect to keep our worst instincts in check. I dispised the horrible 'Purge' movies, but that is where man would end up if it wasn't for a directed morality. I expect a century ago women expected to be raped because their was no recourse to a law that stated that rape was illegal. Do we really wish to return to hunter gatherer status. It would solve a few problems for us males because in this modern world a man does not know what it is he is meant to be. Are we supposed to be masculine of feminine, or perhaps have a little bit of both. As Esnest Becker stated, (I paraphrase) man is not able to reach his warrior status, so he feels castrated.
Christ, I look around me and I see men in their twenties taking handfuls of Viagra because they cannot exist as sexual beings, probably because they have watched so much porn that the thought of touching a naked woman fills them with dread.
I digress. "All property is theft". What a stupid idea. We all have property in some form. Habeas Corpus. We own our bodies. It is our property. I am free to do to my body whatever I want: Tattoos. BDSM. Abortion. Suicide. But, if I try to force my will on another's body without their concent that should be against some law. Anarchy - like communism - does not work. We have settled on the capitalist system(a better, more fair one in Europe than in the USA, the American Dream. HA!) and that is the system we should try to live under. I am a socialist - fuck you Marjorie Taylor Green, go get an education - and I find a good blend of a socialist/capitalist society here in Ireland.
As far as we know, anatomically modern humans, whose brains were just as sophisticated as ours are, have been around for over a hundred thousand years. Statecraft emerged 6000 years ago.
The mainstream narrative skims over the first hundred thousand years of our history and goes straight to the bloodiest episode that humanity has ever known, that episode characterized by the centralization of power in the hands of the state. It then concludes that humans are nasty and brutish, that barbarians will be forever at the gate, and that we therefore need a powerful government in order to protect us from ourselves.
This is an absolutely absurd narrative, and it seems insane to me that so many people believe it. Most people who believe this narrative probably don’t even know that they believe it. So deeply is this belief ingrained within us that questioning it seems foolish and crazy to most people. Isn’t that insane?
https://winteroak.org.uk/2022/10/21/our-yearning-to-go-home/
Hey! Are you referring to Cheran in Michoacan? Ive been there a few times (and probably going back again soon)... It might interest you to check out this article ... https://nevermore.media/2022/03/09/this-mexican-town-kicked-out-the-government-10-years-ago-and-is-thriving/
Thank you for this, it's fabulous what the people of Cheran are doing! Related to the Kurdish free state, Kobane, terrorized by the fascist Turkish state. Check out the writings of the imprisoned Kurdish philosopher behind that movement for democratic confederalism, also led by the women...
Yes, I am of course familiar with the theory of democratic confederalism... which was heavily influenced by the libertarian municipalism of Murray Bookchin. I feel that non-anarchist thinkers consistently downplay the continuing influence of anarchist ideas around the world today... I mean, here in Mexico vast swaths of land are controlled by the Zapatistas, who take their name from Emiliano Zapata, who was a Magonista... And the brothers Magon were most assuredly anarchists (Ricardo Flores Magon viewed Kropotkins The Conquest of Bread as a kind of anarchist Bible). And people can accuse me of romanticizing these places, but Ive spent enough time in Zapatista territory to know that these inspiring example of free societies are worth celebrating.
Yes, definitely Subcomandante Marcos and the Zapatistas. Re: democratic confederalism of course I was referring to Abdullah Ocalan...a treasure for humanity for years in a Turkish prison while writing world-changing ideas inspiring the Kurdish freedom movement
Im currently writing a book about a motorcycle that I took through Zapatista territory... Check out this chapter> https://nevermoremedia.substack.com/p/motorcycle-diaries-part-3?sd=pf
You might want to start here though... This chapter is more about archaeology and the ancient Maya but it ties together... https://nevermoremedia.substack.com/p/the-motorcycle-diaries-part-2
There are rules we can live with; and rulers we can live without.
Well said Michael. I feel like I'm getting closer to anarchism. I used to respect law and order when I was young because I thought it was the only way to live in peace. Now I realize that "law and order" are the sources of evil because they are constantly manipulated. I couldn't imagine the extent of the manipulations we are subjected to. But now I see it and anarchy could solve that.
I don't want to say that it is possible to achieve it. It is still a utopia. But we must cultivate in our inner beings this spirit of disobedience.
Since you talk about spirituality, I was led to anarchism by Taoism. The spiritual path to anarchism is particularly beautiful.
Ive been writing a lot lately about Taoism and anarchism. You might like this piece https://nevermoremedia.substack.com/p/taoism-divinity-and-the-new-anarchism (which I wrote), or this piece https://nevermoremedia.substack.com/p/zhuangzi-the-case-for-daoist-anarchism (an essay about the book of Zhuangzi) or this piece https://nevermoremedia.substack.com/p/neither-lord-nor-subject (a classic Taoist-anarchist text entitled Neither Lord Nor Subject. Id be interested if you could recommend any particular Taoist texts that would be particular interest to anarchists...
Pre-state police societies and peoples also tend to have murder/violence-rates magnitudes higher than more formally and strutcturally organised societies.
You can look at Scandinavian Iron Age for the perfect examples, as our Medieval laws simply were the same as the pre-christian ones, they just added a chapter about the christian god and rules re: clergy. If you felt you had been a victim of a crime, you could bring this to Ting and speak if you were free (not a thrall or in debt, or a foreigner or outlaw), and plead your case, and bring witnesses. The other party could do the same, and the Ting would deliberate according to law and tradition. Most often, any conflict was solved with fines payed (and haggled over).
But some crimes did not allow fines. Let's say someone violated a family member of yours so bad they died. The Ting, if siding with you (which in no way was guaranteed as influence, wealth and status played its part) would grant your ight of reprisal. Actually carrying that out was on you, and so was dealing with any repercussion from the other side, often leading to generations-long feuds (several of the Sagas mentions such things as one of the main causes for people migrating to Iceland or going a-viking).
So you see, we as a race and species and cultures have already tried what various libertarians and anarchists propose, and those systems are the foundation for the societal evolution what has brought us here. That background cannot be discounted: that was the main mistak of the french revolutionaires as well as the american ones and the Marxist-Leninists: the tried to cut humanity off from its past and reinvent everything from scratch using reason. The french revolution brought mass murder on an even larger scale than the feudal monarchies', the Russian Revolution we all know how it turned out, at the American one only worked well as long as racial segregation was practiced - not a good grade with modern universalist morals, yes?
Not trying to say you are wrong or that ideas of how to break out of the this end-stage of the current historical cycle we're in are bad per se - just saying that any kind of governement and governance has already been tried multple times with results varying all across the board dependent on technology, race, kultur, and contextual circumstances, making t next to pointless to say that this or that system is always bad or can never work (and we need to define both "bad" and "work" too, right?).
Anyways, thank you for your time. Debating ideas is virtually dead here in Sweden, at the ideas of history/the history of ideas was my favourite subject when I was still allowed to teach.
Maybe you didn't read what I wrote or I didn't write it clearly: the Scandinavian Iron Age you talk was already violent -- iron means weapons -- because it was far removed from hunter gatherer tribes. Same with the first empires in the Middle East which were unparalleled in their violence. Modern military's technology has only made things worse.
Hunter-gatherers were/are even more violent. Iron equals weapons, really? You think humans needs iron to make weapons?
Empires in the Middle East unparalleled in violence? So you have never heard of historical China, the mayans or the aztecs just to name a few?
Modern military technology has meant fewer civilian casualties as direct effect of war, not more. You need to study history for real.
And the mortality for hunter-gatherers, all kinds, staggers our belief. Average lifespan of 55-60, 6-8 children per woman at least since 2 to 3 out of 5 children dies before age 5, not to mention the risk of the mother dying at childbirth.
Put down the hookah and go study real history, not pipe dreams.
Stop ignorantly insulting me, most of what you're saying is absurd. And read what I'm saying carefully. Obviously historical China, the Aztecs etc. were super violent, I never said otherwise. Have you ever lived among or even visited hunter gatherers, the few who remain? See what's been done to them since the arrival of the "civilized" races, millions murdered in the Americas, African peoples herded into artificial nation-states succumbing to rule by corrupt leaders of one tribe lording it over the rest. The health of hunter gatherers was outstanding compared to our toxic societies filled with obese, diabetic people chained to pharmaceuticals. Why don't you try reading the book I suggested, Voices of the First Day? You'll see what we've lost. Nothing human is perfect but there's no doubt modern military technology has meant massive deaths for civilians as well as soldiers, check out World War I, World War II, the drones now.
Good comment. It's the non-Hobbsean notion that we don't need a state to control us. And people did live like that for 30k years...and painted those amazing cave paintings. No one since "civilization" has ever been able to paint like that. I'm not being frivolous, I think there's something key in that. The state has been something we've been coerced into for 5000 years or so. How that happened I don't begin to know and there are a whole lot of theories.
the state is just watered-down feudalism. in addition, over time it became a weaponized control mechanism which replaced the traditional division of village labor - the midwife, the herbalist, the hunters and farmers - with a control grid enforced by a system of rewards and punishments completely alienated from and irrelevant to the innate rewards or failures of those jobs themselves. we need to get back to that.
So happy you guys connected, Tessa, and I look forward to enjoying the fruits of your discussion!
Thank you Margaret Anna! I am glad as well, and thank you for your idea that happened to be my desire as well! :) It was perfect!
🙌💗🤗
Thanks for this introduction to Paul's work. I can see I have plenty of reading to do!
My pleasure! And yes, A LOT of reading. :)
Tessa, regarding your excellent, scary Human Batteries article: when I was in Italy a few years ago (2017), I was staying with some friends and they showed me this in action. They, husband and wife, had Android mobile phones with the WalkyBit app, which used the built-in motion and location of the phone connected to a server which mined crypto from the phone's motion. So they had these dedicated phones (they didn't use them for making calls) that they carried everywhere, even walking round the house. With enough "credits" the crypto would be transferred as cash into a Visa card which they then used as money. It involved a €5,000 investment in the company to create an account, which was a catch. But nevertheless, this was happening back in 2017, 5 years ago.
Wow, Navyo!!! Thanik you for sharing that story!!
And I can't help but wonder about the EMF pollution from carrying your phone on you even around the house... yikes.
...or The Great Fauci-ist Reset??? Maybe?
That, too. A subset!!
will definitely give this a listen! I was an avid Winter Oak reader even before the convid, and you've both been excellent on the psy ops we're living through.
Love winteroak.
Very thought provoking discussion! Much needed perspective sharing. Thank you. I share many of your thoughts in it. Many times lots of "great mystery" feel going on.....with all this.
"Ministry of Fun" from the human batteries piece made me LOL! Then I caught myself, thinking of the things we used to laugh at that have all come to pass. Still, we must continue to laugh, for love loves to laugh and hate hates to be laughed at. Thanks for the chuckles, always. The snarky inputs are a wonderful adornment to your writing, and laughing at them sets me breathing again.
Thank you Daniel!! And yes, we must continue to laugh!!
Been following Paul on WinterOak for a couple of years now and read some of his work. A voice well worth listening to.
Yes, his work is really great!!!
"Communism is the most opportunistic kind of capitalism. Ownership is framed as management." I had always felt that way but was never able to articulate it so well. Thanks. Also glad you brought up how we need to fight dystopia by bringing equal parts utopia to the argument. that we have to be every bit as audacious as Klaus the Louse.
I know from your earlier writing that you were on to the technocratic agenda since way back - like 2015. In your experience in China, did you have an inkling that this hell we are in now would be rolled out? Maybe that could be something you explore in an upcoming piece?
It also works in reverse:
"Capitalism is the most opportunistic kind of communism. Managment is framed as ownership."
Rent seeking, regulatory capture, no distinction between people holding office or sitting on board or being owners, and all capital and ownership ultimately gathered in a few thousand pairs of hands. Not to mention "campaign donations" and all the other ways capitalists buys politics.
Anarchy means without rulers.
If you look into what Marx wrote later on, true socialism is in effect anarchism, where every worker owns the means of production etc. No centralized ruler.
Even John Lennon explained it well in his song "Imagine".
The USSR was not really socialist, it was state capitalist. The state owned things.
The USA is State corporatist, aka Fascist, where corporations run the political system.
This is correct, been saying it forever -- capitalism can be state capitalism or corporate capitalism but it ends up giving the people the short end of the stick, and not only people. Through unrelenting extractive colonization of the planet for short-sighted profit, it ends up destroying life forms, environment, air, water, and ultimately our sanity.
There are different flavors of Anarchy. It's not just Frankfurters wearing black
Murray Bookchin explains Libertarian Municipalism here, via the Anarchist Library:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-libertarian-municipalism-an-overview
Tessa Lena said in the video: "Anarchist is like a terrorist" -
Being a terrorist itself, the rabid government brainwashes people into thinking that those who protest its abuse, corruption, and "official" endless crimes are "disruptors of peace."
I always thought of anarchists as those who either refuse to recognize the "authority" of the criminals or call them out on their crimes. https://1dissident.substack.com/p/the-scumbag-series-episode-i?s=w
Either way, they do not like that. The ones whom they can't brand a "disruptor of peace," they simply barbarically silence.
Agree with the danger of labels and "isms".....I would never use the word "Anarchist" or only in the rarest of situations,....all these terms are very loaded and so can't to the populace offer an accurate description......I would use this instead "Voluntary Assembly" rather than Anarchy,,,,,we are all Anarchists, we do "Anarchy" all the time in every aspect of our lives,,,friends for example are anarchists, deciding themselves the hows and how nots of the friendship.....stand and watch a street performer, = thats anarchy.....lend your neighbor a cup of sugar = Anarchy....
Great resource re the traps of language = General Semantics
Is it a capital A or lower case a? Who cares,,, doesnt change what it is...