Then you stand (like me) at the opposite of the gnosticist spectrum.
Indeed the basic idea of gnosticism (which is drawn from neoplatonism) is that the demiurge (some kind of semi-god) with his pals the "archontes" have created our bodily and material universe and are keeping our spirits as prisoners of this bodily world. Our spirits wer…
Then you stand (like me) at the opposite of the gnosticist spectrum.
Indeed the basic idea of gnosticism (which is drawn from neoplatonism) is that the demiurge (some kind of semi-god) with his pals the "archontes" have created our bodily and material universe and are keeping our spirits as prisoners of this bodily world. Our spirits were somehow stolen from or lost by the real God (who dwells much further up in the cosmos) and our now trapped within matter. To the gnostics this was like the supreme crime.
Hence procreation was the worst crime possible that could be perpetrated because it ment a new soul (that belonged to the real God far above) was now trapped in the lower cosmic realm within a body!
And of course he whole point was escaping this lower realm through asceticism (thus hatred of the body and matter) to climb up the "eons" back to the real God.
If you want we could do a talk one day on late antiquity mindset and gnosticism and such. After all that's what I do normally :-D !
Wow so interesting!! it is phenomenal how the same words mean different things to different people. When I was talking to Cyd, I got a different feel completely, although I did pick up on the story about the creation of this world by an egotistical personality, and the notion that material objects are kaka. But I think because Cyd is a beautiful person, her own version is joy-based and knowledge-based. So interesting!!
And yes, I would love to do a talk. Maybe not immediately because I have already hijacked the usual course of my podcasts with this episode (I wanted to do it, I am happy I did it). But I would love to. do it. Thank you!!!
Your explanation is really helpful, thank you!! I am very excited about learning this bit, previously unknown to me, about the Gnostic preference to avoid reproduction. I makes it so similar to today's sadness and dislike of human existence (assuming people back in the day really felt this way).
And this version you described is in a way similar to the western rendition of Buddhism where the goal is to complete this cycle of rebirths already and depart for good. The indigenous version is much different, and much more joyous to my senses.
PS. I didn't mean the indigenous version of Buddhism, although in Tibetan Buddhism (the only one I am familiar with), the most interesting school to my senses is the one that is the oldest, which means it carries more from Bon.
Then you stand (like me) at the opposite of the gnosticist spectrum.
Indeed the basic idea of gnosticism (which is drawn from neoplatonism) is that the demiurge (some kind of semi-god) with his pals the "archontes" have created our bodily and material universe and are keeping our spirits as prisoners of this bodily world. Our spirits were somehow stolen from or lost by the real God (who dwells much further up in the cosmos) and our now trapped within matter. To the gnostics this was like the supreme crime.
Hence procreation was the worst crime possible that could be perpetrated because it ment a new soul (that belonged to the real God far above) was now trapped in the lower cosmic realm within a body!
And of course he whole point was escaping this lower realm through asceticism (thus hatred of the body and matter) to climb up the "eons" back to the real God.
If you want we could do a talk one day on late antiquity mindset and gnosticism and such. After all that's what I do normally :-D !
Wow so interesting!! it is phenomenal how the same words mean different things to different people. When I was talking to Cyd, I got a different feel completely, although I did pick up on the story about the creation of this world by an egotistical personality, and the notion that material objects are kaka. But I think because Cyd is a beautiful person, her own version is joy-based and knowledge-based. So interesting!!
And yes, I would love to do a talk. Maybe not immediately because I have already hijacked the usual course of my podcasts with this episode (I wanted to do it, I am happy I did it). But I would love to. do it. Thank you!!!
Your explanation is really helpful, thank you!! I am very excited about learning this bit, previously unknown to me, about the Gnostic preference to avoid reproduction. I makes it so similar to today's sadness and dislike of human existence (assuming people back in the day really felt this way).
Absolutely. I feel that way too. The two are very similar if not identical.
As for me this hatred of procreation is very telling. Like a symptom.
There is a lot of self-hatred in the western world. Not only. And not at all the time during its history. But it is there. There is love too however.
There is absolutely no hurry. We could have this talk whenever it suits you. My scholarly life is very adjustable.
Thank you, Matt!! Exciting. :)
And this version you described is in a way similar to the western rendition of Buddhism where the goal is to complete this cycle of rebirths already and depart for good. The indigenous version is much different, and much more joyous to my senses.
PS. I didn't mean the indigenous version of Buddhism, although in Tibetan Buddhism (the only one I am familiar with), the most interesting school to my senses is the one that is the oldest, which means it carries more from Bon.