Thank you, Tessa! This was such a great session between the two of you. I must say your laughter was so infectious it gave the interview a lightness of heart that enabled its absorption. There were so many gold nuggets I made many notes. It's discussions like this that give me hope and rally my own courage. I look forward to more.

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Sorry up front, I did not intend for this to be so long, it just sort of worked out that way.

Thanks for this Tessa and Charles. I found this interview thought provoking and it forced me to further clarify my own thinking in many regards.

I am sympathetic to Charle’s tendency (in my mind) to remove individual responsibility for “evil” behavior from individuals and rest it in the current Uber-corrupt “system” of global civilization. However, I still find the only sensible system in my own life is to assume responsibility for my own actions.

Charles said: “I’m really cautious about converting everything into an us vs them narrative.”

Later he asks: “Are the power elite actually evil?” To paraphrase his further observations on this topic he then notes that the elite are perhaps simply trying to engineer the perfect society and need us all to obey and that they might quite believe in what they are doing.

Tessa commented: “I really don’t care”- (what their motivation for doing evil might be). I would say this difference in perspective is perhaps the essence of the discussion from my perspective.

I have spent a lifetime opposed to violence, whether it be interpersonal, capital punishment, or mass state violence. However, my experiences in Latin America during the 1990’s forced me to face some difficult truths about the nature, efficacy and limits of “non-violent” resistance. In traveling to Nicaragua during the Contra war, as well as to El Salvador and twice to Colombia during their “dirty wars,” I came face to face with death squad members and their brutal activities. I was witness to both the immediate aftermath of a death squad assassination, and to the torture scars of those lucky enough to survivor encounters with these groups. I spoke to “rebels” who’d lost their entire family’s to State sponsored torture and murder and who only took up arms when it was clear that there was simply no evidence that such State sanctioned murder and terror would ever stop.

When nuns are raped and murdered with impunity, and priests, theologians and even an archbishop can be killed openly and with no consequences, the very concept of “non-violent resistance” in such a setting I think is really a cruel joke. When simply marching in a protest can get your entire family murdered you are not “free” to openly “non-violently resist.”

I dare say neither the Nazi war machine, nor the American war machine in Vietnam would have ground to a halt if only there were enough large scale non-violent civil disobedience and resistance.

I realize that for many it is difficult to imagine fellow human beings reduced to being capable of the levels of brutality I witnessed in the Latin American dirty wars. These were counter-insurgency wars sponsored by my American government whose purpose was to maintain oligarchic orders like the one at the helm of today’s so called Great Reset. It strikes me that many of the propaganda techniques perfected in those “wars” are now coming home to roost in the West, along with, MSM censorship, demonization of “the unvaccinated other” and police violence against peaceful protestors.

As I face the very real prospect here in California that I may be helpless to watch as my 5 and 7 year old grandsons are threatened with risking myocarditis or worse by being forced to accept vaccination simply to attend school - I cannot help but wonder at what point I, and others who love the children in their lives, may be faced with decisions that even a year ago were unimaginable to us.

How will we resist? To what lengths will we go to protect the innocent and helpless children we love? Will I willingly, cooperatively be ushered off to a “camp” for those who will not submit to “vaccination?” How might I “resist?” What will I do if my Social Security income is held hostage to a vaccine passport requirement? What will I do if I can no longer enter a supermarket or leave my home without “proof” of my vaccine compliance? Will I simply knuckle under and get the jab if by not doing so I am a complete pariah in the eyes of my family and friends?

Though I do in fact sympathize with Charle’s sentiments, that “us vs them” questions can be completely irrelevant at some theoretical level. The “intent” - wicked or benevolent - of the ever increasing totalitarian oppression does nothing to change the “reality” of its destructive impacts.

We in the West have for the most part sat by passively for decades while endless suffering in the Third World took place conducted in largest part by Western oligarchy in service to their apparently insatiable levels of greed and thirst for power. You do not unleash torture and death squads across Latin America decade after decade - “because you believe you’re helping people.” Now that suffering is being felt here at home, as that same insatiable greed and thirst for power dismantles the rather thin veneer of our vaunted “Western democracy.”

I’ll end with my response to several other of Charles comments.

Charles stated: “Its a very entertaining drama that’s unfolding right now and we all take it so seriously.”

He further observed that he knows people close to the elites and: “they seem like regular people, they’re not sinister.”

I’m sorry Charles if I’m reading anything into these comments you did not intend, but in spite of your and my rather privileged positions on planet earth at this point in time - this “drama” is in fact quite “deadly serious” for much of humanity. The impacts of the lockdowns alone in poorer nations has been catastrophic in terms of life and death and suffering.

I think it is fair to ask how many innocent people of all ages must die at the hands of this brutal global machine either through lockdowns or vaccine injury - before it stops being simply a “drama” in our Western psyche and becomes instead a “reality” to be dealt with.

Tessa commented regarding said elites: “Their actions are monstrous” - noting that their “intent” becomes unimportant at some level - a position I must completely agree with.

Madeline Albright famously defended the earlier elite “policy decisions” that brought about the deaths of a half-a-million Iraqi children with the words “we think it was worth it.” Perhaps I’m just lucky, but I don’t happen to personally know a single human being on planet earth who could EVER make such a statement.

In the end I could care less if Klaus Schwab and his cohorts truly believe they are doing “God’s work” as they decimate the lives of millions around the globe. The glaringly simple “reality” is that there is no evidence they will stop by themselves, so we are going to have to stand up together if we are going to stop them.

Your conversation with Charles forced me to consider what that resistance might “mean” in my own life and how my own resistance might impact the lives of those I love. Thank you for that Tessa and Charles.

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Dec 29, 2021Liked by Tessa Lena

Such a pleasure! Thank you both.

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Dec 18, 2021Liked by Tessa Lena

Two of my favourite authors and 'soul-guides'. I met Charles back in 2011 at a workshop in Toronto. He has a presence and wisdom about him that is so compelling that I was left in awe. Tessa's work is similiarly soul-wrenching and beautiful. Great to see you connecting. Looking forward to seeing more collaboration between you. Thank you both for your work.

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Awesome! I really admire Charles and his work..so very excited to see you both together! I don’t know if you’re familiar with Bayo Akomolafe.. but he’s worth checking out ❤️ looking forward to watch the interviews when my girls are asleep! 💪

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Dec 18, 2021Liked by Tessa Lena

What a wonderful conversation. I hope this is only Part One…to be continued! What I learned: when I try to convince someone to think, do or try anything, I am tapping into the same energy that drives totalitarian governments and authoritarian drift. My job, therefore, is to interact with others simply from a place of love and truth, without exerting any effort to shift their position, or impose my will on them. Great insight—thank you. ♥️

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It can be hard to know how to begin engagement. Gandhi deeply investigated how to engage:


Developing a satyagraha for the medical freedom movement​ (Thanks "oxymoron" in Oz.)

​Gandhi understood that overthrowing empires requires an entire metaphysics

​ ​Gandhi developed a philosophy called satyagraha — satya is “truth which equals love”, āgraha means “holding firm”,

so satyagraha is “holding firm to the truth that is love”.

Satyagraha has a number of core principles including:

1. Nonviolence (ahimsa)

2. Truth — this includes honesty, but goes beyond it to mean living fully in accord with and in devotion to that which is true

3. Not stealing

4. Non-attachment

5. Dignity of manual labor

6. Control of desires

7. Fearlessness

8. Equal respect for all religions

9. Economic strategies such as boycotts of imported goods (swadeshi)


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I follow both of you here on substack and enjoy what you have to say.

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I would like to see those with mental dis-ease taken care of, given appropriate therapy, because it is absolutely necessary to realise that these people who so much need to control things, who are never satisfied no matter how much they possess are some of the results, are a sign of the kind of society we have colluded in forming. Generations of feudalism in the past, with the stronger physically ruling the many, usually via fear, has put in place, (together with religion adding the fear of hell for sins committed) an unhealthy obedience over those many generations. Our complacency, more recently, even though more informed and educated than in the past, but nevertheless allowing those with the need to 'Rule' to decide that war and competition for resources, pollution of the air, soil and water, is fine, that fighting and competition is human nature. Who says so? Why those who profit from war etc; those who believe in survival of those they perceive as the fittest, themselves.

Many of us have been aware that we're taking the wrong path and now is the time to take responsibility for the reality we wish to experience. It's time to grow up now.

The school yard bully, is usually bullied by an adult or two at home and takes his pain and need for revenge out on those who are having fun at school. Most psychopaths and sociopaths have themselves been abused in some fashion or another, not necessarily sexually, there are so many ways one can inflict pain on a child; I was psychologically abused, but not enough to turn me into a psychopath, but I did need therapy and, like the bible says....'The sins of the forefathers will be visited upon the children unto the fourth and fifth generation. Seems the ancients were as aware of psychology thousands of years ago as some are now.

'Forgive them for they know not what they do', engrossed as they are in their unmet childhood needs and, if they're just plain mean then we still need to see to it that they are not able to pursue their unhealthy (for us) desires.

I believe, as you have more or less said, that the travesties being perpetrated energises many to stand up for themselves and say no to this neo-feudalism

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Jan 3, 2022Liked by Tessa Lena

Hi there, is it possible to listen to this on any of the podcast networks/apps? I see that your episodes have stopped updating back in May. I ask because it's so much more convenient for me to "consume" in audio mode. But if not, I'll carve out time for the YT video. Thanks!

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Great conversation, Tessa! Thanks to you both.

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Dec 19, 2021Liked by Tessa Lena

thanks for an insightful and provocative discussion.

Tessa, I think your really nailed something when you said that the fight against Klaus Schwab's Glate Leeset was more internal than external. Someone who has been echoing that observation, if you aren't already aware of her, is Adrienne Elise, an intuitive who has been putting vast energy into a series of videos which have been validated over and over again since the beginning of the lockdown. I highly recommend her work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW-hzy8liGM

The great songwriter Marianne Dissard echoed your comment about the right to simply refuse when an interviewer asked her to define freedom. Her answer: simply to say no.

And just for fun - regarding Charles' reverie about God being bored and creating drama to alleviate a never-ending, tedious hell - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQCM81omUf8

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Freedom now-break the chain of illusion. It really is time to pull back the veil. You guys and your generation deserve the truth. This discourse totally examples who you both are and your milieu. All can learn once again simply to disinfect (germs/pathogenic agents) from mucous membranes tissues of each individual’s nose/throat/lungs/bloodstream YOURSELF. This has been in existence for 120 years of clinical use without any-at all-adverse reports, (according to FDA under FOIA request).Truth exists and levels the playing field and the OTC disinfectant was WHO Essential Medicine for children, so gentle it was mandated for the eyes of the newborn infants. Although Tessa Lena said she doesn’t want mandates at all, disinfection was mandated by the US Surgeon General-even if NIH recently in 2019 stated “people won’t do it”. DISINFECTION of mucous membranes stopped the pandemic 100 years ago and won WWII for the US and Allied Militaries. ‘They’ are hanging everybody out to dry over the abyss regardless of their intent-it’s because they can-power expressed simply for power sake-outsmarting everybody by scamming us all on the trail of only one engineered solution. I am not the only one who knows maybe the only one who remembers.

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Dec 30, 2021·edited Dec 30, 2021

The unconscious idea played out is that God is a cruel tyrant who enjoys making others suffer for his pleasure. That if you don't give him what he want he will make you suffer for it, so as to force you to give him what he wants.

While in truth God is willing to experience that erroneous hypothesis by undergoing everything we experience. As each and every one of us. As perpetrator and as victim.

He stooped down to our level by taking on our human experience to raise us up to his level. He let himself be spiritually tortured to death by the very beings he is giving his life to by experiencing being them, the humans, to free them from the death of not experiencing being God, Who is our true being, that also we have his life and happiness.

The "evil" roles are played to evoke our conscience into waking up to how and Who we really are thanks to God.

What we morally approve of and in that sense like is like to how and Who we are. And what we morally disapprove of and dislike is unlike how and Who we are. ("Dislike" meaning "unlike.")

Compared to God's infinitely great happiness, experiencing being but human is the crucifixion in hell. Yet for the purpose that also other beings would have God's joy he is willing to experience it.

It is God Who -after giving his life for the humans by experiencing being but human instead of divine in order that also they would have his life and happy Self-awarness- is reading this now in human appearance.

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Hello Tessa!

The main feature of the current model of Modern Moron Slaves is absolute (99,99%) compliance to the programming.

The programming is passed from the old generation of MMS to the new one via the "teaching sub-system". The main programs running are indeed effective: Irresponsibility, Ignorance and Idiocy. With these 3 the Owners of the MAIN SYSTEM can do whatever they desire, that the billions of MMS won't even know They are the ones doing it.

The progenitors of the new offspring don't actually care about the offspring. They have offspring because "society" expects it from them. So it is very easy to understand the current behavior of billions of MMS if we realize this simple Reality.

For these billions of MMS anything is ACCEPTED as long as they can continue to fulfill their role in the MAIN SYSTEM.

The role is simple: OBEY and in return you can CONSUME "freely". The Owners are so generous that they even allow the MMS to go into DEBT in order to CONSUME more.

It's clear to me that these billions of MMS will never go against the MAIN SYSTEM. They see it as their "god" and "protector" so the meekness will prevail.

Only those that can use the little flaw - 0,01% - embedded in the code, aka Thought - are the ones capable of seeing OPERATION COVIDIUS for what it really is.

https://i.postimg.cc/7PTx9YmN/COVIDIUS-The-Great-Resetter-SFD-pt.jpg (portuguese version!)

The english code...


But hey... For me it has been FUN, contemplating what I've always knew!

Nothing will be too much for the billions of MMS... I know this due to the simple FACT that OPERATION COVIDIUS is still running smoothly for two years now.

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Dec 18, 2021·edited Dec 18, 2021

Dear Tessa, we were born to shine, and to share the love of God. I would implore you Tessa and others to read the New Testament, taking it to heart. True biblically based Christian Faith is the Truth which frees us.... and allows us to live lives worthy of our calling. Matthew 5:14-16 TPTB seek their kingdom. As Christians we seek God's Kingdom in the present, and for eternity. We are in spiritual warfare, the battle and war already won. The New Testament.....read it.

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